Reflections on the Anime Subculture

Back when I was in college, when I was still basically a liberal (although even then I hated other liberals), I joined my university's Shakespearean acting troupe as a tech guy. There were a few different reasons for this. It got me out of the dorm. It curried favor with the English department (where I ultimately landed for my minor studies). It was worth three very easy 400-level credits a semester. Shakespeare's just cool. I got to learn cool tech stuff -- sound boards, lighting, etc. And so on. But I realized very quickly that I was not like most of the other people "doing the Rudes." For me, it was instrumental: something I enjoyed and which was of material benefit to me. For them, it was like an end in itself. I also noticed that they were generally deviant in other ways. They were screechy, neurotic bisexuals with lip piercings and black clothes. They had sex with each other constantly and went off after practice to have video game parties. One of them would sometimes wear a strange headband with little conical horns attached to them. They wrote anime fanfiction (because apparently animes with romantic subplots always have desperately unsatisfactory endings) and dressed up like anime characters to go to anime conventions. They were anime kids.

I confess to having watched very little anime in the past, most of which I was forced to watch by an anime-loving friend. I've been mixed about what I've seen. Elfenlied was intriguing, Beautiful Dreamer charming and whimsical, Spirited Away weird and incoherent, and Naruto just annoying, with its screechy theatrics and agonizingly long-winded dialogue (my efforts to get into the Pokemon fad when I was in elementary and middle school failed, and for the same reason). I don't get the appeal, perhaps because of my instinctive dislike for the idea of being a grown man sitting around watching cartoons all day. I think what turned me off most was just the casual and unquestioned weirdness of it all. It's not even divergent enough to be surreal, because it takes itself too seriously. People in these shows and movies casually accept the presence of large minorities of vampires, aliens, weird horned half-men half-animal hybrids, people with ESP and other strange powers, and the like. Watching them is like a bad LSD trip.

So I suppose it's a good fit for people who are themselves casually weird, the kind who grow greasy, patchy beards and wear oversized coats with way too many pockets and chains and collars and all that crap. The awkward, out-group dweebs who populate the corner of every college bistro playing Magic: The Gathering. You know the type. (I wonder, does the weirdness of the person derive from their early exposure to the weirdness of anime? Or are they drawn to anime because they're weird people?)

In college, I dated a relatively pretty girl with several friends in this group and every time I stood in their presence, I felt like the brutish jock in a chick flick who steals away the nerdy main character's love interest. Me! At best, I had the build of a second-rate swimmer in college. But their group was so vacuously negative of masculinity that I slid almost by default into the role of alpha horse. I hated being hated by these mewling, oleaginous things.

I feel like I could write a book on this subculture, but I'll content myself for the sake of economy with just a few observations. Their in-group dynamics, such as they are, are disordered almost to the point of psychosis. It seems they can barely even relate to one another in any kind of meaningful fashion; I once saw two anime kids sitting next to each other on a couch, playing the same video game at the same time, but on different consoles attached to different TVs! "Lest you interact with another person?" I thought to myself.

Far from being sexually frustrated, as you might suspect, in my experience they set up these strange sexual covens wherein the women (and certain men; sexual deviancy is not uncommon here) are passed around more than their old pirated copies of Boondock Saints. Strangely, this produces very little drama, like it would in a group of normal people in which one woman slept with multiple men. I have no idea why; maybe an aggressive response is beyond people so totally empty of masculinity, or maybe their stunted souls were never capable of forming meaningful attachments to others in the first place.

I've certainly never had a conversation with an anime kid and thought, afterwards, "Wow, I'm really glad I met that person." Come to think of it, I'm not so sure I've ever had a memorable conversation with one at all. I don't think I've ever seen them read anything that wasn't (a) a comic book or graphic novel, (b) a textbook for class, or (c) some slice of schlocky left-wing cant to make themselves look intelligent, a bookmark always strategically inserted around two-thirds of the way in (because they're so smart!). With few exceptions, dumpiness was the general norm, although I'm not sure if this is just poverty or an intentional snubbing of basic politeness to others. Some things, such as the long, stringy, oily ponytails the men tended to grow, were simply inexcusable; surely they could've borrowed an electric razor from someone, and who would begrudge a grown man the Bruce Willis pate? Pronounced body odor was not the norm but was certainly more evident among them than in the general population.

There are various strata of the subculture that get weirder the deeper you go. At my first school, there was a sub-subculture of people who called themselves furries and who walked around with fake animal tails hanging from their waistband. (All of the furries were anime kids but not all anime kids were furries -- very few were, in fact, and I sort of got the impression that some of the anime kids were "above" the furries and had no social truck with them). I talked with one of them about it, and she evidently believed she had some kind of "animal spirit" dwelling inside her or something and wore her tail as a means of identifying with it. I couldn't help but notice they all identified with foxes, squirrels, and the like. (Of course! Why would your "spirit animal" be a macaque or an alligator or a tapeworm or something? They're gross!)

And, of course, the anime kids were spiritual autists to the last man. The closest thing to religion any of them exhibited was one who was an actual autist and (cafeteria) Catholic; the rest were basically run-of-the-mill atheists possessed of a bitter and irrational hatred of the faith. I gathered from my conversations with several of them that they had all had bad childhoods of some sort which had a vaguely evangelical flavor and which thus soured them forever on the idea of religious. They were pretty much the perfect instantiation of Dr. Charlton's distraction-seeking utilitarian.

Anyway, these anecdotes are just that -- anecdotal -- so I have no idea how well they generalize to other places. That said, I went to school in the mid-Atlantic and my Texas-raised coworker insists my description here matches the anime kids group at each of the three colleges she attended, so I'm inclined to think I'm on to something.

Comments

[Ben A.]

Your descriptions are spot on in Texas for sure. It would be interesting to try to explain what causes this strange phenomenon!

[Anymouse]

I can say I watch Japanese Animation much as you have, although I am enthused about the subculture. I would have to say that what gets watched is a big problem with these subcultures. My A&M Campus is so dumpy it doesn;t even ahve an Anime Club. I am not sure I want to start one.

Speaking of furries, want to read about lolicon?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolicon

[Anymouse]

Postmodernist schlock is an important way of justifying this, because there is not other way to justify it.

"There is no objective way to claim 'Lolita Anime' is inferior to Moby Dick. It is just your opinion. There is no such thing as objective truth"

[CorkyAgain]

"There is no objective way to claim 'Lolita Anime' is inferior to Moby Dick. It is just your opinion. There is no such thing as objective truth"

Thanks to a youtube video I watched last night, I can tell you what the philosopher John Searle had to say about that kind of argument: if you no longer accept the idea that some ideas are better than others, why should parents spend so much money to have their children educated by *you*?

When university professors no longer believe in *quality*, they're declaring themselves to be useless.

[Richard Carroll]

Anime is probably my primary hobby, so I feel I ought to leave a comment. First of all, though I've never met any traditionalists among anime fans, I have met a few conservative people. I myself am Catholic, one who believes what the Church teaches, and FWIW I'd agree with most of what I've read on this blog. I also read a fair amount of literature, history, and other things besides comics.

I think Lefties are attracted to it partly because it's not Western, and partly because Japan often tends toward moral relativism, especially in people's personal lives. Also, it's niche, and thus relatively welcoming to the socially awkward.

You're right that some anime is pretty weird, though I'll point out that this is partly because it's Japanese and thus, by nature, a bit exotic. Plus, part of what makes animation as a medium so interesting is that it's much easier to use surreal, or at least non-literal, imagery compared to live action productions.

I'm attracted to the form because it's good entertainment, better than what I see from Hollywood or on American TV. It's also a young medium, so though it certainly hasn't produced an artist along the lines of Dante or Shakespeare, there have been some talented directors worth watching, like Shinkai Makoto, Kon Satoshi, or Shinbou Akiyuki. It won't change your life or anything, but if you avoid the furries and the Narutards there's plenty of worthwhile material out there.

[Joetexx]

I have seen 1 Furrie in my life; apparently they are at the bottom of the geek pecking order

'There's nothing below Furries at the bottom of the geek barrel. These folks dress up like human/animal hybrids, often for sexual-fantasy reasons. As much as I want to say "go for it!" to anyone with an oft-mocked hobby, well, this proves that even open-mindedness has its limits'

http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/Great_WhiteSnark/geekchartbig.gif

I can only take so much sentimental Jap popcult. My high school chemistry & algebra students, especially the girls, would avidly draw anime characters on the whiteboards after a lab session. Some were quite good but as onee chubby gothgirl told me, "We can't draw anything but manga or anime."

[Proph]

Glad to hear from you, Richard -- good to know the anime subculture has at least one member who takes something seriously besides mere distraction!

[Dirichlet]

Man, I watched some of Dragonball Z when I was in middle school. It was fun. But that's it, I grew up. I simply cannot understand why someone in college would want to lock himself in his dorm room all night to play video games, watch low FPS cartoons and spank the monkey, given all the things you can do in a college campus.

I mean, just look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2ptG5PwX4k

No comments, just note the tics on the kid in blue.

I don't know, man. If I ever have a son I'll keep him away from vidya games and animes. We'll all be better off camping and playing sports.

[Dirichlet]

Okay, this made me cringe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utnb5Mru_zo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQjSbYfp7rI

End America now.

[Scott W.]

Yowza Dirichlet. I confess to have been a fan of this back before it dumped on America like so much pop-culture garbage from Japan. I could never put my finger on it, but something always felt off about this (thankfully brief) hobby. Not all anime was pornographic of course, but all of it felt like indulging something like pornography, and I think that has to do with adults being absorbed into a fantasy world (and not in a good Tolkien sense).

James Bowman put his finger on it when a commented on Grand Theft Auto:

Among the ill-effects of video games, I think, we must be entitled to put a lack of shame among adults for spending any significant amount of time playing them — and therefore living in a fantasy world. Or for watching the almost equally fantastical movies and TV shows that are now the norm. How can these things be socially healthy? To blur the distinction — among the many blurred distinctions of our era — between fantasy and reality is by definition a bad thing. It means that we choose deception and lies over truth. And there’s where the real Conservative Tastes draw their line in the sand. Truth is different from falsehood. And better. That’s our critical bottom line. Astonishing, isn’t it, that it should have become controversial — or, worse, political to say so. If we can’t agree on that, or if we mark ourselves out as "conservative" or "right-wing" by holding out for some truth so obvious, the culture wars have already been lost.

[Proph]

Wow, that first video pretty much captured all the stereotypes I was trying to point out. They even had a tall skinny guy in an oversized coat with a long thin ponytail!

Scott is right to point out that the worst examples of this kind of behavior (the kids I describe above, not types like Mr. Carroll who can clearly balance a hobby with a healthy personal and intellectual life) is deeply damaging. It draws kids into a world that is *less* real when their spirits are trying draw them toward a world that is *more* real -- away from total absorption and loss of the self in cartoons and video games and toward total absorption and recovery of the self in the life of the Church and of Christ.

[Anymouse]

"but if you avoid the furries and the Narutards there's plenty of worthwhile material out there"
Agreed. Speaking of more pulpy shows, I actually thought R.O.D the TV was pretty good.

[Anymouse]

There is a review of a book about these kinds of trends in entertainment below.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/brain-diving/2011-01-11

Sorry about the double post.

[zhai2nan2]

'Elfenlied was intriguing, Beautiful Dreamer charming and whimsical, Spirited Away weird and incoherent, and Naruto just annoying,'

Here's my standpoint:
I got into anime because I hate Hollywood and I want it to vanish from the face of the Earth.

I hate Hollywood movies, I hate U.S.A. TV, I hate newspapers.

To fill the gap, I started watching yakuza movies. Then I switched to anime.

Here's what I get out of anime: I get decent sci-fi of the sort that Americans used to write sixty or fifty years ago.

American sci-fi repulses me. Anime has its flaws, but it's better than Hollywood.

Elfenlied, IMHO, was a decent action anime, but it's not one of my favorites. I thought Spirited Away was great. I have never watched an entire episode of Naruto.

Feel free to hate American otaku for their behavior. I don't condone promiscuity, and if it could be established that otaku are all promiscuous, I would censure them for that. But I don't think that's the case. I think you're tarring American otaku with a very broad brush because you feel guilty about having gotten your easy credits doing tech for a drama class.

Also, I think you just don't like ugly people, and you're feeling free to hate on a lot of otaku because they're ugly. There's no way to prove or disprove that suspicion, but I want to mention that it seems obvious to me.

[Proph]

I had to look up "otaku"; I've heard the term before but never heard it defined. It seems appropriate in this context: "people with obsessive interests, particularly anime, manga or video games." That's pretty much who I'm describing here; the kinds of people who could not accurately be described as "casual" anime fans.

I don't begrudge anyone their idiosyncratic interests; I'm a (casual) gamer myself. Just pointing out that pathological obsession with a particular venue of entertainment has led, in this instance at least, to the propagation of pathology in other areas of their lives too. Hobbies should remain hobbies, not become lifestyles. As I said, my observations are anecdotal so I can't presume to generalize them, although I have at least anecdotal evidence that the phenomenon is not confined to the Mid-Atlantic but is present throughout Texas as well. My boss, a graduate of Oregon, confirms they're there as well, or at least the furries were, although he mentioned they were entirely absent at the Georgia university at which he taught for several years. Based on these descriptions I gather it's basically an upper-middle class phenomenon.

I don't see why I should feel guilty getting credits for stage work. They weren't "free," I still had to pay tuition for them, and by all accounts I spent more hours working there than I did studying for any other class. It would be more appropriate to say I dislike people who casually flout social conventions and who are boring, ignorant, and unpleasant.

[zhai2nan2]

'pathological obsession with a particular venue of entertainment has led, in this instance at least, to the propagation of pathology in other areas of their lives too. '

Let me get this straight: your claim is that over-indulgence in anime is what caused these anime fans to become promiscuous?

[zhai2nan2]

'Hobbies should remain hobbies, not become lifestyles.'

I'd like to see an explicit listing of the lifestyles that are allowed to be lifestyles.

I think the problem here is that directionless middle-class kids are constructing an alternate identity. They're establishing a subculture as their basis for social interaction, and that subculture doesn't serve your interests.

If the same kids had become obsessive Christian evangelists, making nuisances of themselves by preaching the Gospel in a crude and impolite manner, you would see them as potential recruits to your cause - you would see them as diamonds in the rough.

[Proph]

I have edited part of your last comment, zhai2nan2. You are to avoid personal speculations and imputations in the future when commenting on this blog. If you take offense to a post, you can very well e-mail me about it.

Of course I wouldn't object if they were Christians (even if I might chafe at their style of evangelization). Do you think this is some kind of brilliant insight on your part, that I would rather people embrace truth and avoid falsehood?

Of course directionless middle-class kids identify with this subculture. But why do they identify with *this particular* subculture? From where does the disorder of their lives come form -- is it logically prior to the obsession with anime or does the obsession come first? That's kind of what this post is getting at.

[Anymouse]

I would say that the direction less alienation of modern life is what attracts people to certain aspects of the subculture such as the lolicon aspect. It is undoubtedly sinful and perverse, but it is a way to try to have an objectified young female without having to deal with the fact that daily life will not provide one with a real flesh and blood wife of any devotion in it's typical configuration.

[zhai2nan2]

I repeat my questions:
1- is your claim that over-indulgence in anime is what caused these anime fans to become promiscuous?
2- Are you able to define the difference between a permissible hobby and an impermissible lifestyle?

[Proph]

Why do you keep harping on about promiscuity? My claim is explicitly nondirectional. I am suggesting there is some link between the general disorder of their lives (of which promiscuity is one small part) and their inordinate obsession with cartoons. I have no idea what has causal priority.

"Permissibility" has nothing to do with it. Inordinate obsessions of *any* sort are unhealthy, even obsessions with good things; a man may licitly make love to his wife, but a man who cannot keep his hands off her long enough to attend his duties clearly has a problem. It is telling that they have chosen an obsession so utterly mired in escapism and removed from reality, and I have a hard time believing it is otherwise wholly unrelated to their general weirdness.

[zhai2nan2]

Thanks for clearing up your suspension of judgement regarding causal priority.

I had trouble getting that message from your original post because your original post is all about how much disgust and hatred you feel.

I keep harping about promiscuity because your original post read as follows:
'In college, I dated a relatively pretty girl with several friends in this group and every time I stood in their presence, I felt like the brutish jock in a chick flick who steals away the nerdy main character's love interest. Me! At best, I had the build of a second-rate swimmer in college. But their group was so vacuously negative of masculinity that I slid almost by default into the role of alpha horse. I hated being hated by these mewling, oleaginous things.'

So, when I read your post, I see a lot of disgust for promiscuous sex, and a lot of hatred for the people you feel hated you. I have to read very closely to see a message that you're suspending judgement.

I had initially thought that you considered yourself a Christian, but your blog seems to be about how much you hate people, how much you hate being hated, etc.

That's where I was going with the hypothetical case of obnoxious Christian evangelists. You seem to have a lot of hate for ugly people who "chafe" you, even if their avowed principles are in line with what you claim to believe.

[Buff McManly]

I'm an atheist and I can't get over the stupidity of religious people. Have you guys even read Dawkins, Hitchens, or anything against your ideas? You all hold on to ancient mythological beliefs. That is what is disturbing.

[Andrew]

That was pretty snarky. What was the point of this?

[Kyonko802]

Do as I do. Love the anime, hate the fans.

[cypriankorzeniowski]

My own experience with anime kids (or more broadly, nerds) confirms your own observations on their sexual habits. I was never in their social circle, but gossip and firsthand information paint pretty much the same picture. Anime kids, in my experience, do not drink. Whereas normal college students will, and such is the fuel for their sex life. I never saw the casual, inter-social circle sex amongst the normals like I did with the anime kids. Relationships would start within a social circle, but it wasn't the kind of casual, pass it around thing anime kids did.

[J.A Yalinin]

Perhaps you're not looking at the right place but I've seen Christians and Muslims who are fans of anime. I'm sure there were more at the club but religion was never brought up as a topic.

In any case, your experiences are different from mines. Our Club just stuck to geeky games and hobbies that would be consider childish for grown men and women. From that, it never become a orgy.

[CorkyAgain]

@ Buff McManly

If you want a Christian's reasoned response to Dawkins, et al, you should visit Ed Feser's blog. Proph has listed it in the blogroll on the righthand side of this page.

Other Christian thinkers who could be cited in order to meet your demand include Alvin Plantinga and Peter Kreeft. Videos of many of their lectures are up on Youtube.

[KPtackits]

Lol, I'm sorry. I could not stop laughing at this whole thing. I love that our society continues to generalize everything they DON'T know about. Why don't you guys try asking an anime fan. Here, I will tell you about myself.

I go to college, have a job, have lots of friends, go shopping for clothes, but when I come home I love to watch, read, or enjoy anime. Conventions are fun, dressing up like someone else is always a kick. Honestly, no different than a starwars or star trek fan.

We are people with hobbies, who live their lives happy. Which is more than most people who write things like this.

[Proph]

@Kyonk -- sounds good to me!

@J.A. Yalinin -- I don't doubt it. I don't presume to think that where I went to school is anything like representative of the country at large, which is why I don't generalize my description above.

@Buff McManly -- I have. I was unmoved by Dawkins, who I found vapid and uninformed. In fact I was largely converted by Edward Feser's efforts to refute the works of Dawkins.

[Proph]

@Andrew -- What's the point of anything I do here? To describe social phenomena I encounter, to articulate a nonleftist/nonatheist/nonutilitarian worldview, to fit the former into the latter, and occasionally to amuse myself.

@KPtackits -- I say at the end of the post that I have no idea how well my observations generalize beyond the populations I observed. Reading's hard, man.

[Proph]

@zhai2nan2 -- It's your fevered delusion that I "hate" these people because they're ugly (though they generally are, that has not uniformly been the case in my experience; I've known at least one who repented of her childish obsession and wound up cleaning up nicely). I generally dislike them because they're boring, ignorant, screechy, dweeby leftists with zero affective maturity. Note that by "them" I mean the obsessive weirdos you refer to as "otaku," not the seemingly well-adjusted types like Mr. Carroll who posted above.

I'm sure it's difficult for one in your position to understand why people might dislike those who go out of their way to flout even basic social conventions like not pretending to be an animal or dressing up like a psychotic person. But believe it or not, for those of us who, like myself, value healthy social ecology and a vision of man that is directed toward something higher than cartoons, there are *actually* things (like, for instance, the desire to order one's life around cartoon-watching) worthy of contempt -- and feeling and expressing contempt toward such follies is not the world's most unimaginable sin.

[Dali]

You just accurately described 99% of anime fans. I'll admit, I was a casual fan of anime when I was a teenager. There are a few anime series that would appeal to non-subculture kids like Cowboy Bebop, but those are few and far between.

[Anymouse]

Well, there is a reason I would not describe myself as an Anime fan too openly. Not because I don't enjoy the shows I like, but because 90% of everything really is crap.